60 replies to this topic

[I_live_4_fun]

This epic game is too hard to talk about without spoiling any bits of it for everyone else. Hence the new thread ! Don't read on if you haven't played/finished the game yet and don't want to be spoiled.

To start off, this game almost gave me a heart attack the few times we had to play alone with Joel against the clickers, bloaters and other undead. The hotel and university basements were the prominent ones for me (and probably everyone else too) and the eerie/suspenseful music was no help at all, haha. But it did feel like a massive achievement getting through those eventually.

[Aromaci]

Agreed, the tension created during the combat was insane, heart racing kinda stuff. I love that every encounter mattered and every kill mattered. I always felt like I was on the back foot even though I had the element of surprise on my side. It really forced you to make every decision carefully as it's not always a guaranteed success and open combat is a bitch. I really liked the ad-hoc nature of the combat as well. Trying to work out a strategy on the fly with what provisions you have on you. (and always finding yourself short on what you really need)

The encounters with the infected were scary as all get out and the clicking sounds were creepy. I love how minimalist the score was and often at times opting for no music at all, just letting the ambient sounds create the mood and atmosphere. (like all good horror should).

Oh and how the flick did Naughty Dog get this game to look so good? I can't believe this is on 7 year old tech. Compare U1 to this and the difference is insane! I really appreciate the fact that ND made this a long game, really allowed the characters and story to breath and have time to develop.

I'm still trying to sort out my feeling about Joel's decision.

[Soulfrit]

Man I was shitting bricks when I was in the tunnels right before the final hospital
Got stuck at the 3rd set of clickers and giant guys not working out you had to jump ontop of the train
And died about 10 times cause I didn't throw shit far enough away for them to not hear ellie climb on the train to drop the box ;_;
Oh and the restart point being back past all 3 sections of clickers

Also the soliders at the end just wouldn't go down lol, was so annoying

Also hated the university part when you turn on the generator and suddenly big guys, big guys everywhere, scared the crap out of me

Also the ending to me can be designed for a sequel if anything
Leaving her alive with a cure but having to die?
Who knows if ND bring out a sequel on PS4

[Aromaci]

Soulfrit, on 17 June 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Also hated the university part when you turn on the generator and suddenly big guys, big guys everywhere, scared the crap out of me

Soon as that happened I ran, ran like a little girl.

Soulfrit, on 17 June 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

Also the ending to me can be designed for a sequel if anything
Leaving her alive with a cure but having to die?
Who knows if ND bring out a sequel on PS4

The thought of a sequel occurred to me as well but I'd be surprised if they did. I think they ended it like that to make the point that the story was more about the characters than the plague.

I would have liked it if at the end they fast forwarded a few years to Ellie being grown up. I think that would have been cool.

[Soulfrit]

Yeah I watched the credits to see if anything interesting would happen, was sad when it didn't

And I also ran like said girl when i heard them, ran up the stairs and hid in a corridor using all my nail bombs and Molotov's hoping they would just die quick lol

I would be surprised if they did a sequel, but they left it out there with the ending

Also I dunno how many times I would think I got past a group of clickers while stealthing only for one to jump on and rip my throat out from behind and scaring the crap out of me

[acriu]

I can see there being a sequel. with possibly ellie being the main playable character and she finds out the truth with what joel did and him beicoming some kind of bad guy cause of it.

I liked the ending honestly. it fit right with the tone of the game. it wasn't a happy ending nor was it sad. but there is still the feel of hopelessness with it all

[I_live_4_fun]

Did anyone else feel like it was a bit wrong having Ellie to kill all those people in the Winter cabins? I thought it was really cool to use her at first with hunting the stag and then defending herself from the infected and clickers. But it made me think about it a lot while I was playing that part - how this never really seemed to apply to Joel brutally killing other humans for survival and then how deeply it affected Ellie afterwards.

That might have been Naughty Dog's intention though.

[GasClown]

I definitely thought Ellie was overly brutal with her killings - absolutely. Stabbing enemies multiple times like she's some sick little psychotic murderer. On the other hand, I don't think it would have been as effective if they toned it down. Very brutal world they live in - it's kill or be killed. Humans will do anything to survive. This one's definitely not for kids (hence the R rating) - that's for sure.

[I_live_4_fun]

Yeah, I get that it is necessary for all of them. It just came as a bit of shock after the first few kills for me. I'm glad Joel didn't want her to have to kill as much as he did too.

[Aromaci]

I_live_4_fun, on 18 June 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Did anyone else feel like it was a bit wrong having Ellie to kill all those people in the Winter cabins? I thought it was really cool to use her at first with hunting the stag and then defending herself from the infected and clickers. But it made me think about it a lot while I was playing that part - how this never really seemed to apply to Joel brutally killing other humans for survival and then how deeply it affected Ellie afterwards.

That might have been Naughty Dog's intention though.

Yeah I got the feeling it was intentional to create shock by having a young girl kill like that. Plus I felt like it drove home the desperation and fear she was feeling. This is the only world she's known and that you have to kill or be killed. The fact that she is so young ties into this, demonstrating what this world does to people and how no one can maintain their innocents. Children can't afford to be children.

[Aromaci]

Good article on the ending

http://www.forbes.co...the-last-of-us/

[I_live_4_fun]

Aromaci, on 18 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Good article on the ending

http://www.forbes.co...the-last-of-us/

That ending breakdown from one of the commenters (Rathlin1) was really good to read too.

[GasClown]

Aromaci, on 18 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Good article on the ending

http://www.forbes.co...the-last-of-us/

Yeah good read - really haven't had time to post my proper thoughts on this game yet.

I_live_4_fun, on 18 June 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

That ending breakdown from one of the commenters (Rathlin1) was really good to read too.

That was one epic comment. Longer than the actual article I think. haha.

[Aromaci]

I_live_4_fun, on 18 June 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

That ending breakdown from one of the commenters (Rathlin1) was really good to read too.

They made some interesting points about the effectiveness of a Vaccine this late into the infection. But still, could you really deny humanity the chance no matter now small? You wouldn't know if it will work unless you try and who knows, the vaccine may at the very lest delay the human races extinction long enough to come up with a better vaccine/cure.

[I_live_4_fun]

Aromaci, on 18 June 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

They made some interesting points about the effectiveness of a Vaccine this late into the infection. But still, could you really deny humanity the chance no matter now small? You wouldn't know if it will work unless you try and who knows, the vaccine may at the very lest delay the human races extinction long enough to come up with a better vaccine/cure.

I think from a purely objective and moral point of view, it would definitely seem worth it to sacrifice one person's life for a small chance at saving the rest of humanity. It is possible that the scientists could have made a breakthrough or at least hopefully gain some leeway into improving and creating effective vaccines for the future, which they probably tried with the infected (but immune/unchanged) monkeys back at the University too but ultimately failed. At the same time though, it could have ended up another complete failure and Ellie's death and Joel's journey and sacrifices would have been for nothing.

But it wasn't like Joel never considered this either for 'the greater good', otherwise he would have fought back immediately when Marlene was explaining to him what had to be done to Ellie. I feel for Marlene since she agonised over this decision too, but the rest of the Fireflies? They wanted to kill Joel straight after they identified him and Ellie and it was only because Marlene was grateful and appreciated Joel's help that he wasn't killed while he was knocked out (this was in one of her recordings). And even then, Joel was't allowed to even see Ellie one last time before he was asked to leave at gunpoint. That trigger-happy guard escorting Joel out of the hospital wanted any "reason" to kill Joel even after all he's done and been through to bring Ellie to them, and if the vaccine actually worked then those arrogant Fireflies would be the first to receive them. The Fireflies probably wouldn't have distributed the vaccines freely either given their own grudge and sacrifices against the military as well.

So in the heat of the moment, I definitely would not have believed that it was worth sacrificing and giving up Ellie to people like that, not to mention the strong bond between Ellie and Joel that we've experienced and watched grow and develop so much since the beginning of the game. Also, they never actually waited to ask Ellie if she wanted to go through with it; they just assumed it was for the best and that her opinion didn't matter either way so that in itself was wrong.

I think another point to consider on Joel's behalf too is whether or not the vaccine is really the only way for humanity to survive. People are still surviving and fighting off the infected even 20 years after the outbreak and Tommy and his group have even managed to start rebuilding a civilised community and town to live in and stay safe, so it's not entirely hopeless that humanity will survive. Joel saw this as hope too when he asked if Ellie wanted to turn back to Tommy's because it wasn't too late, and even then neither of them expected that Ellie would have to die for a chance at making the vaccine.

It could even be that Ellie's immunity was part nature's way fighting back against the cordyceps, like evolution especially since she was born in this time. Then killing her and getting nothing from it would be wrong. (Just a small theory though).

Anyways, that took me a little while to think through and write it down lol. I actually did think it was kind of wrong of Joel to forcefully take back Ellie at first, although I understood why and accepted it since they both managed to survive.

[Soulfrit]

I also think that after such a voyage and time together like that
They definitely did grow closer and Joel was definitely protective of her which is another reason why he could have gone down the path of saving her over potentially saving humanity

[Aromaci]

I_live_4_fun, on 19 June 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

They wanted to kill Joel straight after they identified him and Ellie and it was only because Marlene was grateful and appreciated Joel's help that he wasn't killed while he was knocked out (this was in one of her recordings). And even then, Joel was't allowed to even see Ellie one last time before he was asked to leave at gunpoint. That trigger-happy guard escorting Joel out of the hospital wanted any "reason" to kill Joel even after all he's done and been through to bring Ellie to them, and if the vaccine actually worked then those arrogant Fireflies would be the first to receive them. The Fireflies probably wouldn't have distributed the vaccines freely either given their own grudge and sacrifices against the military as well.

So in the heat of the moment, I definitely would not have believed that it was worth sacrificing and giving up Ellie to people like that... ...Also, they never actually waited to ask Ellie if she wanted to go through with it; they just assumed it was for the best and that her opinion didn't matter either way so that in itself was wrong.

I think another point to consider on Joel's behalf too is whether or not the vaccine is really the only way for humanity to survive. People are still surviving and fighting off the infected even 20 years after the outbreak and Tommy and his group have even managed to start rebuilding a civilised community and town to live in and stay safe, so it's not entirely hopeless that humanity will not survive. Joel saw this as hope too when he asked if Ellie wanted to turn back to Tommy's because it wasn't too late, and even then neither of them expected that Ellie would have to die for a chance at making the vaccine.

You've made some very good points I had not considered before. Indeed a vaccine may not be the only way of overcoming the plague. Plus I think part of what Joel did was a spur of the moment decision. I don' think even he knew what he was gonna do before he did it.

[I_live_4_fun]

Aromaci, on 19 June 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

You've made some very good points I had not considered before. Indeed a vaccine may not be the only way of overcoming the plague. Plus I think part of what Joel did was a spur of the moment decision. I don' think even he knew what he was gonna do before he did it.

Yeah, when that prick Firefly guard started talking, I knew he'd probably push Joel over the edge. I actually felt like hitting him too, lol.

[GasClown]

I wouldn't ever have given her up, she's a child. End of story. Yes morality was thrown out the window in order to survive but at the end of the day, some of those principles still lived inside him (Joel).

[straussy240]

Really good points all over this thread people

I have to agree about the vaccine ultimately being a failure during the period of time they live in because if they cannot understand how to develop a vaccine from infected monkeys then I would go ahead and assume that Ellie would die in vain. Who knows the research on the monkeys could have worked if they did not have to evacuate, but I guess its what you call c'est la vie

Considering Joel said they already had living infected survivors I am pretty sure he was referring to the monkeys without saying as much to Ellie while she was in the back of the car. Even though a lot of what happened at the end was spur of the moment and done because he deeply cared for Ellie. I think he knew in his heart that he could not let her die because it was wrong, but also because it would have been for nothing.

Thats why you keep fighting I guess